Thilo Hoffmann – The last interview

by Rajith D. PhD

Thilo Hoffmann 1922-2014; Photo from interview

Pioneering naturalist and conservationist Thilo Hoffmann was still alive in his native Switzerland when I met him for what turned out to be his last interview.  Not just Sri Lankans but the world owes him a debt of gratitude for setting in motion the protection of the prime wet zone wildernesses in Sri Lanka, Sinharaja forest and the Peak Wilderness under the government of Sri Lanka, outstanding global biodiversity hotspots.  Despite this, much of his contribution is unknown in the West including his native Switzerland.  This is a summary of my interview with him at his home near Zurich on 28 December 2012.  It may provide both history and inspiration for those few audacious enough to endeavour to follow in his footsteps and enhance what remains of Sri Lanka’s currently dwindling biodiversity.  Hoffmann’s dreams will contribute to conservation in the future – an integrated vision of man and biodiversity from marine reserves and coastal wilderness to montane forests that provide the aquatic lifeblood of the nation.

Douglas Ranasinghe has published Hoffmann’s biography, The Faithful Foreigner (2015), a wonderful tribute to the man, his work and a history of wildlife conservation on the island.  In a review of this, Rohan Pethiyagoda that it was amazing that Hoffmann was not kicked out of the country for his political agitations – Hoffmann had to renew his SL visa annually.  As Pethiyagoda recently stated about Sri Lankan conservation in De Silva Wijeyratne’s Wild Sri Lanka, taking a cue from European history “The renaissance has started though may be not the enlightenment”. 

My interview was a conversation and has to be seen in that light.  Not all will agree with Mr Hoffmann, but this is precisely the point of shedding some light on a giant of wildlife conservation in Sri Lanka who is in danger of being forgotten in recent wildlife literature.  As much of the original conversational style has been preserved – punctuation has been added.  The forceful expressions of Mr Hoffmann may be quoted as genuine, verbal statements.  I placed several questions.  Rather than detailing the entire conversation, it has been edited and major themes highlighted in bold text representing topics introduced by me.  Bold italic text highlights the questions for clarity, or points, posed by the author.  Quotation marks are regarded as largely redundant except in indicating general, context driven elements in the talk, where expressed.  Finally, Hoffmann managed to correct my transcript.  Any errors are my responsibility.

Early life and getting established in Sri Lanka

I think I published about four hundred articles ….  I was there last March (2012), I always go into book shops [in Sri Lanka] to see if there is anything new …

My date of birth is, 13 March 1922.  My father was a doctor, and he was a keen botanist and mountaineer.  He took me out as a small boy and showed me the plants, the animals and the trees.  I learned these things.  And my paternal grandfather had a small farm with animals, bees and fruit trees and my maternal grandfather lived in the canton of Shaffhausen, in a lovely rural area where I spent many happy holidays.  So I had an affinity to agriculture, to nature, to beauty, to knowing plants, knowing animals and so on.  This is something that grew with me.  Whereas I could be classed as a naturalist, I was cut out to be a conservationist.

I came to Sri Lanka in October 1946.  I had obtained a Diploma Agricultural Engineer (Dipl. Ing.-Agr. ETH) qualification from the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology.  I was also awarded an agronomist qualification as Master of agricultural science.  Baurs in Ceylon was looking for what they call a Scientific Advisor or if you like just an Agricultural Advisor, and when they wrote to the Institute of Technology, they recommended me and I was selected.

It was my wish to go somewhere to the tropics.  I don’t know why.  During my studies I had read books and heard a lot about the island, naturally including about agriculture.  So, I had an image of beauty, warmth and romance and richness also, and all these put together.  It was during the war here, so we were really confined to this small country.  We were unable to move so much as one foot beyond.  And, there was hardship in Switzerland.  There were all sorts of things, restrictions during the war, in the middle of it, having to defend ourselves, against all sorts of pressures.  In short one just had to get out.  So Sri Lanka was an opportunity to get out.

Baurs has always been, since its inception in the 19th century a Sri Lankan Rupee company.  It dealt with agricultural fertilisers and later pesticides and other goods.  It has not been taken over by foreign hands yet and still operates.

I was struck by Ceylon firstly as I am an explorer.  As soon as I got there I liked the country.  I had to travel a lot as an advisor to the customers of Baurs.  I visited untold estates, farms and places and so I almost began to try to get to every place in Sri Lanka, not always following the same route.  When I followed one route I tried to find another one.  And like that I began to explore the country, to see it, to notice it.  So this was really the beginning, my interest in the country was mostly geographic then. 

Ayyo!  There is no comparison between the island in 1946 and now.  Natural landscape was then really plentiful and there were less people - a population of just six million then.  In my view one of the most basic problems in the world is explosive population growth.  All the ills of the environment are in part a consequence of the growth of population.  Our first aim should be to keep that down.

From my explorations I got interested in the jungle and the animals of course.  I went on shooting trips at the beginning with Sinhalese friends.  I was not interested in shooting.  In fact I never liked the killing of any animal.  But that was the way it was.  In 1947 friends invited me, we went via Panama to Okanda in what is now called Kumana national park.  We camped out there for two weeks; at night we went water hole shooting in the jungle.  It was a terrible drought that year I remember.  Anyway I had a yearning for that kind of outdoor life.  My friends were chiefly trophy hunting, the main quarry was leopard, but they also shot pig, deer, hare and jungle-fowl for the pot.

As for the British – I never went hunting with the British.  It was with local fellows.  Dougie de Zilva, Ben De Harmer, Anton Soerz and Hans Siga another Swiss chap who was with me at Baurs.  The five of us together went to Okanda twice in 1948.  Mind you it was already an adventure to get there in the first place.  We had to go up to Haputale, down to Wellawaya, then Monaragala, Potuvil, down Panama and the coast, and this was an adventure.  Much of the way was through jungle.  We went on foot, at night or evening.  We had local guides and a cook.  We travelled not by car, but by foot.  I shot crocodiles – that’s all.  One of us shot a leopard at night at a waterhole.  In the morning I was totally covered in ticks after patting the poor animal’s head.  A bear was shot in order to collect its baculum or penis bone.  Wounded bears give off terrible cries in pain.

Once I attended an annual general meeting of the Wildlife Society (Wildlife and Nature Protection Society – WNPS) at the Galle face hotel and I met the President, a planter called Ted Norris.  I said I wanted to join.  He promised to send an application form but it never came.  So it took me several years to become a member.  Rodney Jonklaas, who you may have heard of was the secretary then, but he hardly attended meetings although he sent their notification.  So I was asked to take down the minutes, and I became secretary and so my involvement grew.  That’s how I shifted towards conservation.  I would say I’m mainly conservationist rather than a naturalist or activist.  Nature and its ways were always part of me.  I would never consider myself a green extremist.

Noted natural historians and authors encountered

I knew Dr Richard Spittel the anthropologist very well.  I only once went with him to a Veddha place off Maha Oya, probably around 1952.  I also knew Christine Spittel Wilson.  Dr Spittel was a medical doctor with a nursing home on Bullers road.  She was first married to a burger chap Jonklaas before marrying an engineer called Wilson and wrote Bitter Berry.  Originally, Christine and Jonklaas lived at Nagarak Estate that Dr Spittel had purchased for them – they had one child Anne, but no children issued from the second marriage to Jock Wilson, a Scotsman.

I knew Mrs Lushington the ornithologist.  She and her sister were members of the Ceylon Bird Club, they were both at Wanaraja tea estate.

I knew W. W. A. Phillips the noted mammalogist when he was still planting in Sri Lanka.  He was mostly a tea planter though he may have done rubber.  Although he became noted for dealing with mammals he was largely an ornithologist, one of the founder members of the Ceylon Bird Club.  He never wrote a book about birds like with mammals.  Most of his work was in the nineteen thirties.  He was a scientifically qualified prisoner of war.  I knew him and his wife at Pingarawa Estate, Namunukula during this formative stage.  Subsequently we corresponded when he lived in the UK.

I never met ornithologist G. M. Henry though I wrote to him.  I knew his son Bruce.  I also knew Lyn de Alwis, the former director of the Sri Lanka Zoological gardens quite well.

I knew Arthur C. Clarke.  He was very rich.  He came to Sri Lanka because he was rich.  He seemed to like Sri Lanka and knowing N. M. Perera, convinced him to set up a resident guest scheme.  He came to Sri Lanka as the first resident guest tax-free!  Attracting people like him to settle down was good for Sri Lanka’s image.

The maximum number of members at the Ceylon Bird Club was according to how many bird record books that could be produced using a typewriter.  It was a maximum of eight members to begin with in the forties when I knew W. W. A. Phillips.

Encounters with politicians and weakening of environmental enforcement

I knew Dudley Senanayake quite well and also J. R. and Premadasa.  Premadasa was one of the best during the time I was there.  Barely two years in power and he was killed.  I knew him long before when he was an MP.  Educated, clever, a doer and a hard worker.  His time was the only time when employees of the state were told to dress properly and serve the public efficiently and politely.  He was good though his wife was of a different calibre. 

The best leader in terms of the environment was J. R. Jayawardene.  Dudley was also a nature or jungle lover but when it came to doing things - that was JR.  JR gave the definite order stopping logging at Sinharaja.  I spoke to him personally.  He was always good to me and received me nicely.  He listened and seemed to be sympathetic, understanding and he did things.  At an earlier time, when he was minister of state under Dudley, he was the one who stopped Upali Senanayake’s idea of putting hotels up along the Yala coast.  Upali was a member of the Ceylon tourist board.  There was a big conference.  I was the secretary of the society.  At the conference, when we went out Upali was mad like a coot.  J. R. seemed to have a genuine understanding of the needs.  He was not perfect, his brother Harry was responsible for the constitutional issue.  I always found him to be nice, friendly and decent.

Was it bad when SWRD Bandaranaike caused most of the Europeans to leave?  Well, it was not so much that but the wrong people came into positions of power at all levels and these people had no understanding or interest in the environment.  You can see even now.

The 5000 feet law was there then giving some protection to all lands, mostly forest above that altitude and stream reservations.  Stream reservations, forests along streams were also respected.  There were three tea estates in Uva that Baurs owned, they all had several stream reservations along the streams running down the slopes.  Never infringed.  When SWRD came all these stream reservations were compromised.  Encroachment began.  To date they are all gone.  No one even knows the word “stream reservation” any more.

Patna habitat

Are patnas man made or indigenous habitats? Patna pieces between forests are still there exactly as they were and have not been heavily influenced by succession.  They represent original vegetation.  My main reason to say this is because there are endemic plants and animals in the patna.  Often strictly endemic to the patna nothing else.  These could not have evolved as endemics had patnas not been original vegetation.  There should be national parks to protect some patnas.  I have always argued for it, I continue to argue for it.  The heartland of the patna is in Uva.  Uva and the Nilgala area with its talawas (savannahs) and those foothills around that area.  Uva itself, the Uva pleateau was very special with its talawas.

Conservation issues

The IUCN in Sri Lanka is now linked with WWF.  I was associated with these organisations for many years but fell out with the WWF eventually.  In a way IUCN do good things but now in Sri Lanka, they are not that effective.  Both these organisations were founded well after the WNPS and the local IUCN ignored my work including a pioneering booklet on the endangered birds of Sri Lanka.  Earlier organisations like the Ceylon Bird Club and WNPS were built up by voluntary contributions.

Before the CITES regulations were implemented in the 1990s was there more research by foreigners?  I don’t know about research.  There was not much actually [in the 70s].  Actually during that time (70-80s) there was not much interest shown.  They were not aware of the problems or facts of Sri Lanka.  When that did happen, then CITES was already in existence.  Before CITES I got down that couple Bertram, for Dugong research for the wildlife society at that time.  During those days there was no problem at all for research, they could move about freely, no interference from customs.  Now there is a special section in the Customs and the department of agriculture.

Botanical concerns

Issues about invasive plants may be hyped.  Some cases are exaggerated, others misunderstood.  There are many foreign plants that are now branded as aggressive.  Some are, but many are not.  The gorse has been around Nuwara-Eliya for 200 bloody years.  Only recently thanks to the mass migration to Horton plains has it spread there.

We must be sensible.  Lantana was introduced apparently by a British Governor’s wife as a garden plant and naturally it has spread from there and now covers the entire island.  And is regarded again as an invasive plant.  But it first of all it only grows where humans have devastated the original vegetation.  Nowhere where the original vegetation is intact do you see a lantana.  It’s impossible, it cannot grow.  Its seeds are spread by birds, by seeds and so on.  And now what happens.  You have an area which has been devastated by Chena or a similar sort of activity, or clearing of an enormous areas for a scheme like Uda-Walawe, and then they leave the land fallow for years, for decades, not used, only partly used for paddy fields.  Uda-Walawe national park is a prime example.  The lantana established itself there because there is nothing else.  All the rest had been done away with.  Now they try to clear it for millions of rupees.  In vain it will come back.  If you look closely at the lantana spread and you go into it, under the protection of the lantana, local native trees begin to grow.  You see palu inside the lantana.  So if you leave the lantana for 100 or 200 years, you will get back something similar to the original vegetation.  And the lantana will be gone.

Isn’t tea the worst invasive species unlike coffee?  Even coffee required full clearing.  Actually tea also needs shade.  Grevillea the silky oak, another imported tree is a fine shade for tea. 

Best cash crop – cocoa? Coco is a forest plant.  Coco under rubber maybe.  Well rubber itself with Pueraria is not really a bad cover.  Of course it is a monoculture – so it’s bad.  Even tea if it is optimally done along contours – if it is well cultivated plus the shade, in areas like Uva.  Can tea be grown sustainably – yes.  Now of course in Uva tea was grown in patna.  When I first came to Sri Lanka Uva was one large undulating land of patna.  200,000 Acres.  It went right down to Nilgala with its talawas - the steppe, groups of trees plus grass.

Tea was grown there where it was almost an enhancement, if the tea covers the land well, if it is well planted with shade. 

Are forests needed for springs complementing patnas?   Of course those are the sholas - patches of montane forest in grassland.  The water eats itself into land and you can have streams along patna bordered in recesses like this, by small trees.  Such depressed gullies are protected against strong seasonal winds and eventually develop into dense jungles of trees, shrubs and lianas.  These forest patches are the sholas – these were very rich systems, with many animals who used them for migration, such as barking deer, that moved from the low country to the hills along these streams.  Nobody in Sri Lanka took interest in this or noticed and today, few are left.

Amateur versus professional naturalists and NGOs – the impact of amateur naturalists being replaced by professionals and NGOs

Amateur naturalists historically used “their” own money.  I agree naturalists have to have their own resources.  What actually happened during my time is that the amateur naturalist or conservationist, has been gradually and sometimes ruthlessly displaced by the professional.

Now, All these bodies, which you have today, Birdlife international and World Wide Fund and what have you, all are professional bodies.  Now they cannot tolerate amateurs next to them or even on par with them.  They have to suppress them and that’s what happened throughout parts of my life.  I was the exponent of the amateur and I suffered from that.  I can tell you, I had terrible fights with the World Wildlife Fund.  Eventually they pushed me out as president of the society –

As president of what society?  Wildife [WNPS] society.  As I said ruthless.  And what do you get instead of devoted organisations which you find in all countries? – in every country you had a band of amateurs.  It cost nearly nothing; they all did good productive work, they studied, they sent reports.  The movement was living on its own and in my humble opinion did better work for conservation than these super organisations do now.  What they do they produce?  Beautiful books, with pictures and all the rest and so on.  Spend enormous amounts of money on conservation and this and that; actual effect in a country like Sri Lanka – practically zero. 

So home grown conservation is best?  Yes.  Mainly as a hobby.  Certainly not as an income. 

Thilo Hoffman’s role in the Mahaweli Project

By that time I was retired from Baurs but still living in Sri Lanka (in the late eighties); at that time there was Dr Atapattu who was the Director of Wildlife.  He was a veterinarian who had been at the zoo under Lyn de Alwis by the way.  He knew me and invited me into this Mahaweli Environment Project under the Ministry of State at that time.  So I became for about two and half years, the manager of that, in a purely honorary capacity.  That was based on the TAMS report by an American organisation paid for by USAID.  The US paid for it, the whole program: setting up of national parks.  They paid for the environment program as part of the Mahaweli program that was set up from the very beginning.  It was creating the Maduru Oya National Park, the Wasgamuwa National Park, Somawathie National Park and The Flood Plains National park.  These four national parks were in this program and the connection between them.  There was a planned connections between Maduru Oya and Flood Plains and Wasgamuwa on the other side of the river.  The whole thing was interconnected right down to Thamankaduwa – that was really to my heart (since compromised).

Some of these national parks existed already, Thamankaduwa was a sanctuary, Somawathie was a sanctuary, Maduru Oya did not exist, that was entirely new; Wasgamuwa was a strict national reserve.  So there were reserves, but to tie them up and defend them against the avalanche of machinery – have you seen how land is cleared today?  They moved these enormous machines down corridors in-between with chains, they rip the whole bloody thing out.  But still these parks are the reserves where wildlife can survive.

Mahaweli development was a necessary project as extensive dry zone areas could not for ever remain under mostly unproductive forest, but unfortunately it was implemented by ruthless destruction, sometimes leaving flat areas with not a single tree.  It may have been better to restore thousands of crucial tanks and their cascades as had been suggested.

Then came this bloody war and the tigers encroached on these national parks.  Yes the war did help to protect wildlife – temporarily.  Subsequent developments have the opposite effect.

I retired from Baurs in 1982.  I was still chairman of Baurs at that time (of the Mahaweli development).  I was still to some extent involved but not full time.  I left Sri Lanka in 1998 or so, my wife was very ill and she had to come here, that’s why I left.

Sinharaja

This is, if you talk of accomplishments, probably the only really important one that has really saved something.  I did hardly know it, but what happened was that I was the president of the Wildlife Society, and the idea of doing something in Sinharaja which has a mystical connotation in the minds of the Sinhalese did not go down well.  That was the time of Mrs Bandaranaike.  The idea of destroying the forest was strongly opposed by some people.  One of them was Vere de Mel; Who was a leftist politician at some time.  He was the founder of these taxis Quickshaws, he was also a member of my committee and he used to harp on this and said “you must do something”.  You! Not he!  I.  That was always the thing.  They came up with ideas and I was supposed to do it.  So anyway, what happened, after several interventions by these people, I went there.

I spend three days there, with my friend Sam Elapata who lived at Nivitigala and every morning at five-o-clock I pushed off and went into Sinharaja.  I did the whole damn thing in and out; I walked right through the forest to the other side at Watugala and I just looked; in fact I published a small thing after that, as a basis for the campaign we started, I said, I went there.  I was not at all extremist to say “we must not do anything here!” but I wanted to see what it was.  What it represented.  Then, this decided me that we should not touch it at all, because this seemed to me from the creation of the world, an evolution, which had not been interfered with by the people. The local people were very few, tiny little hamlets, and they took a little jaggery and a little timber and a little this and a little that from the forest; so, to my mind this area especially around Sinhagala was entirely untouched; and then, I walked through all that; Ayyo, what I can tell you, I mean, after half an hour you were wet and you stayed wet until you went to bed or took a shower - soaking wet because of the high humidity.

Except for smaller areas of higher elevations like Suriyakanda, basically in the rainforest it is always very humid, the rainy season almost impossible, and there are leeches also, of course, leeches you get only where animals move, buffalo in this case.  Anyway, I think I could give you a copy of that.  The Wildife Society produced thousands of copies of a booklet by me called “Sinharaja 1972” both in English and Sinhala; 1972 – that’s when the campaign started.

What happened actually after some time, the government appointed a committee with George Rajapakse was minister of fisheries as head; and why they wanted to log Sinharaja was to feed that Kosgama plywood factory; all that is described in my booklet and in the upcoming biography by Douglas Ranasinghe.  So, they were of course set on this.  Autarchy was their main thing.  They didn’t want to import anything if they could, that was also the reason … Autarchy means self-sufficiency in something, in this case timber.  They had to import enormous quantities, plywood for tea-chests.  They wanted to do that themselves.  The timber was to come from Sinharaja by a means called selective felling, that means only ripe trees.  Four or five or even only one or two per acre, but the destruction to get them and out, altered the whole system, totally.  And I Knew Sinharaja was a unique thing, which once logged selectively would be lost forever.  And it would never be regenerated quite like that.  I mean think of all the species, which Rohan has found, fishes and things … slugs and snails and insects and god knows.  All that would have really, or much of it would have [been lost], so I was very convinced that for the people, for Sri Lanka it would be better not to touch it and in fact conserve it.  But, ayyo, uphill struggle – all in the book about me by Douglas Ranasinghe.

It was JR who gave the order.  He came to power with a landslide.  It was actually around 1977, he was Prime minister, he became president a year later.  I went to see him, and talk to him about this because by then [1978] this had been going on for six years, and it had still not been resolved.  They just wanted to give 4000 acres which had most of it already been logged so not much use for anybody.  I said no.  Somehow or other he was convinced.  Possibly also because he was Sinhalese, he knew the history, the story that the forest was something special to the Sinhalese.  Anyway he gave the order [to stop logging] – out finished. 

Then there was a struggle between me, as representative of Wildlife [WNPS] and the Forest department.  There were two forest reserves.  One was the Sinharaja and one the proposed Sinharaja forest reserve, adjoining.  But the two of them were what we wanted.  And then I said it should be handed over to the Wildlife Department because at that time the forest department did not have any legislation, which gave real proper safety to an area like a national park.  Then they introduced a new law, which was called the National heritage act, basically the same as the Flora and Fauna Protection Ordinance.  They wanted to keep the forest.  And in a way, well I didn’t like that - because it was really the forest department who had started this whole thing and who were behind the logging, not anybody else.  So how could you make them the guardians?  Anyway in the end that was probably OK.  Thus it became this national heritage area, then it became a biosphere reserve and eventually it became a world heritage site, which it’s now.  All this happened after the logging was totally stopped.

There are national parks and forests.  Only 2% are wet zone forests. Aren’t these more significant and are wildlife corridors important? Dry zone forests have also lost a lot and they will lose more [in comparison to wet zone forests].  If we can.  One time long long ago when I was secretary of the WNPS, I wrote an article where I wanted to tie up the Ruhuna area with Gal Oya.  That’s a very very long time ago.  Dr Spittel called it at that time one of the best things written on this subject.  These things have been in my mind all along, you know, to connect them [national parks] up, sensibly.

What about using mountain ridges as forest corridors? The top mountains are entirely cut off from the lower lands.  You still have, above 5000 feet a few areas of forest, and if rigorously protected most certainly that would be most valuable.  Not only to wildlife, catchment and erosion protection but also for the climate.  These are very often the cloud forests, and the cloud forests have been dying during the last thirty years, probably due to pollution.  I was about the only person who took an interest in why and came up with the conclusion that it was pollution.  Not only our own pollution but from south India and surrounding regions.

What’s the main motivation for preserving wildlife, to preserve species richness, the water catchments, tourism?  The lot.  Not tourism.  For me what is now called eco-tourism is an evil, because it destroys the last remaining intact sites.

But good examples as in Hong Kong exist?  You could do that.  The trouble is people always go beyond limits.  Everybody thinks we must offer our clients something new, something special, something original.  So instead of sticking to what there is, well, certainly you could develop, jungle trails, say in the Knuckles.  You could.  It would be a good thing.  If the rest is then strictly left alone.  That is not going to happen.  Some other fellow, he thinks, ah I want to go beyond and so on. “Proliferation”.  That’s the problem.  I have very much seen that through my eyes, somewhere I have written.  For me the best thing is to confine tourists to strictly designated areas and not allow them to roam all over the bloody place.  Of course where there are roads …

So there needs to be a hierarchy of natural reserves from strict to nature trails? That’s right. 

On Marine conservation

Marine conservation is very important.  Extremely.  I have been fighting for that also, because I had a house on the east coast which was ransacked during the war [1980s] and I was very concerned about coral depredation for lime burning.

And what about fisheries?  Sure sure.  With regards to dugongs, to my mind it’s too late now.  I don’t think you will find any more dugongs in Sri Lankan waters, because that waterway between Puttalam, Kalpitiya and Mannar is now heavily disturbed daily.

Yes marine reserves should be created.  Of course.  All the major coral reefs should be protected fully, entirely, and only entry allowed against permits for specific, well controlled purposes because they are very sensitive.  And corals are enormously important to keep our coastlines intact.  Of course the coral reefs have an important, protective, role to play and so have the mangroves.

Anything special about Sri Lanka?  Its similar to South India, Laccadives, Maldives or something if you like.  Sri Lanka is special by its geography.  Being an island, being where it is at the tip of India in that climatic zone and all the variety it has from sea level to seven thousand feet and so on.  It is a biologically unique, especially these elevational differences.  That is why I always wanted that the peak wilderness to be made a national park. 

That’s one of your accomplishments?  No it is still not properly protected.  Still only a sanctuary, bits and pieces.  I wanted to add to it, the Kelani Valley, the forest reserve which goes right down to Kitulgala.  So you would have a national park from under a hundred feet up to seven thousand feet.

Do you think the British did a good job in preserving forest despite all the destruction?  Yes.  They did a good job as far as the forest itself was concerned.  Of course they gave land out for clearing and plantation, that’s a different matter.

The problem of crown land – the government owning all the land as an effect of colonialism, is not that a problem?  I think so.  Earlier, these were not really property rights, they were usage rights under the kings.  And the population was very thin at that time.  Hardly had an impact on the forest.  They used the forest for this and that, just like Sinharaja when I first saw it.  So what the British really did, they declared all the land to which there were no clear titles, as crown, meaning government property.  This is today the land which the government is giving away for this and that and the other, and which of course was then, given to tea estates and so on.  That you have to judge in a different way.  But once that had been done, towards the end of their period, with the forest department and the land department.  These people did a good job.

Was there more damage done post independence compared to colonial times?  Very definitely, because discipline disappeared, and of course the growth of the population.  Pressures came and politicians had no other idea when they wanted to develop this country than to open land and give it for settlement and cultivation.

Only Premadasa, again was the first to introduce industries like the garment factories, all over the country, he was really the first to get us away from this basic, preposterously simple ways of developing the country.  I was here two years before independence.  Through independence, after independence, I can tell, the main damage to the natural environment has been done since 1960. 

Isn’t it difficult to get things done then? Pessimism?  It is.  Of course you can find people who have the same idea as you and I.  You are an example, but that’s not enough.  You have to get to the centre of power, where decisions are taken.  If you have a person there who is a convinced conservationist, then you know that he or someone like that will think before doing things.  People must have foresight, think about the possible results, in order to do that they must be influenced by …

You have to be optimistic.  You get knocked down, but you stand up and start again, otherwise, if you are not.  You see I am really, quite a sensitive person, people don’t perceive me as that, so it hits me, it worries me, it hurts me when things go wrong, terribly wrong, and when the wrong motives are imputed to me for doing those things.  It’s been a bad time, generally speaking, up and down.  Sure I did love the wildlife.  Animals have no votes at all.

Elephant killing by trains

You see another thing which still happens today [elephant decline].  Throughout my life the railway has killed elephants, throughout though perhaps a little less during my first years in Ceylon.  And I know for a fact that some engine drivers are drunk, at night, when they drive the train, and they deliberately run their bloody trains into a herd of elephants.  Now that train goes so slowly, it runs so slowly.  I once read a small article, this is a fact, in the paper, it says: A terrible accident was prevented the other day on the rail track between Polonnaruwa and Vallaichenai.  The last wagon caught fire.  There was a Catholic priest in that train, he jumped down and he ran and ran and ran up to the engine driver and told him to stop.  And if that priest had not done that, all those people would have died.  That was written in the paper and it actually happened.  So you can see how fast these trains normally run.  And these fellows could have stopped their trains, but they hit an elephant deliberately!  No no ordinary Sinhalese farmer would simply kill an elephant.  But if it damages his paddy field, that’s another matter.

Films: Bridge on the River Kwai and Elephant Walk

Bridge on the River Kwai: It’s one of my favourite films as well.  I saw it here recently for the 10^th time.  Superb film.  I was chosen as a stand-in for Alec Guiness, but did not dare ask my employer for so much leave.

Elephant Walk: Blocking Elephant roads mostly fiction.  At Hantana they did much of the filming for that movie.  Elizabeth Taylor came in much later, because the original actress chosen, Vivien Leigh fell out, after they had taken all the shots in Sri Lanka.  She became ill, infatuated with another actor, had to be taken out.  Elizabeth Taylor was never in Sri Lanka.  That’s why the film was pretty lousy.  All original shots were replaced with studio scenes.

Are there messages for young people in this Hoffman biography by Douglas Ranasinghe?

I hope so.  I mean, the only reason I have put in a lot myself, was I was hoping that it might, even after my death, have a certain impact, meaning it shows people what they could do.  What they should not do.  Mistakes that may have been made in the past and which they make over and over again, if somebody will take note of it, but I must say I have not much optimism.

The organisations in Sri Lanka should unite and put their heads together.  In my time there was only one.  The wildlife and Nature Protection Society.  There was nothing else.  Today there are dozens.  as you can see.  And they all do their own little thing which is often, nothing.  Which has no impact what so ever.

The Young Zoological Society (YZS) is good.  That was created by Lyn De Alwis.  Of the others, The Wildlife Society is now, almost defunct, regretfully I have to say. Just existing, that is not good enough reason.  People are not prepared, to really give much of their existence to an idea.  They feel strongly and all that … Now the Young Zoologists are basically good.  I have occasionally met some members, I see how keen they are, mostly how they study, they learn, that’s a good thing, that was Lyn De Alwis.  But again originally, the YZS was a rival to the Wildlife Society, just like FOGSL was and is a rival to the Ceylon Bird Club.

There is no reason why there should not be different people looking after different small little different interests, as long as in important matters they get together. 

Personal life revisted

What allowed you to live and work in Sri Lanka and retire in Switzerland? I was working for Baurs for 40 years.  I think I could have managed to live on the amount I saved during this period of time.  My family, fortunately, is well to do and I had no problems there.

I have no children.  Married for over 56 years.  I met my future wife just before I left for Sri Lanka.  At that time we were not allowed to marry during the first contract.  The contract was for 4 years.  I must have been very persuasive.  My boss didn’t like the idea.  I got married after 1 year.  My wife was with me in Sri Lanka throughout; we could not have any children.  My wife was very happy to be in Sri Lanka, she shared all the hardships, she walked with me, we did everything together.  No complaints.  She came with me on the second hunting trip down to Panama.  She endured all the hardships without complaint.  She died twelve years ago.

Another photo from the interview

Thilo's last flat in Switzerland